If you thought Game 1 of the NLDS was bad…

Bay Area Sports Guy October 07, 2012

Remember when Giants fans were scared of Brian Sabean possibly signing this guy?

The San Francisco Giants aren’t out of it yet, but tonight they sure looked out of it. Bronson Arroyo brought the Bobby Jones comparisons, and that’s never a good thing. Madison Bumgarner showed that teams that are exceedingly cautious with their young starters are that way for a reason (more on that in a bit). There isn’t enough liquor in the Bay Area, because this article looks as ridiculous as this photo of Arroyo.*

In 2010, the Giants beat Roy twice in the postseason. In 2012, Arroyo was invincible. Is this just two bad games, or were the Giants a fraud this season, a team that fattened up on a horrible division and a late season schedule that saw only six games against a winning team (the Dodgers) in the Giants’ last 34 games? These are valid questions.

Other things we can ask:

1. Did the Giants destroy Bumgarner’s season in August?

He pitched eight shutout innings in Los Angeles on Aug. 20, striking out 10 and allowing only four hits. He also threw 123 pitches, the first time he went over 117 all season. Bumgarner hasn’t thrown more than 104 pitches in a start since, but the damage may have already been done. Since that game in L.A., Bumgarner’s stats until through the end of the regular season:

7 starts: 36.2 IP, 5.89 ERA, 45 H, 31 K, 17 BB

Tonight: 4.1 IP, 4 ER, 7 H, 4 K, 1 BB

2. Is there any chance Tim Lincecum re-signs with the Giants (assuming they’d want him back)?

It was announced before the game that Lincecum wouldn’t start Game 3 or any other game in the NLDS. This was something that Lincecum already knew. Lincecum didn’t know the news was public this afternoon, then before the game had to answer questions (which he did in a professional manner, which isn’t a surprise because he’s always like that).

It made sense that after Lincecum-as-reliever became news, Bochy would test-drive his new short-range sports car in Game 2. However, something about the communication between coaches and player was amiss, at least according to this exchange before Lincecum took the mound after barely warming up at all in the bullpen.

Yeesh…

3. Can the Giants finally stop forcing us to watch Guillermo Mota?

I thought this was figured out during that last series in L.A. I have nothing against the guy, and I don’t really care about the children’s cough syrup or even the fact that he was a two-time PED offender. He’s simply a mediocre reliever.

4. Are there any bright spots to cling to after the first two games?

Actually, there are two (and neither of them will provide any solace for you). First, no errors! The Giants aren’t beating themselves! Second, I feel a whole lot better about not getting credentialed for the postseason! Except it meant that my wife and I spent way too much on tickets for last night’s game. Okay, scrap that second bright spot … I’m sure you already did.

5. How can they sweep the three games in Cincinnati and save their season?

Let’s see … Ryan Vogelsong has to pitch as well as he did in his last two starts (of all the Giants’ failures over Games 1 and 2, Matt Cain and Bumgarner combining for 9.1 IP has to be the most surprising), Angel Pagan and Marco Scutaro need to go back to being the guys who helped the Giants sprint away from the Dodgers over the last six weeks of the season, Hunter Pence needs to see a hypnotist or something, and that’s just if they want to have a chance in Game 3.

It’s never over until it’s over. And once it’s over, go Niners.

*via @gggiants

About the Author

Otherwise known as Steve Berman (no, not the guy from the Eminem skits), BASG started Bay Area Sports Guy in January of 2008 with the help of his then-girlfriend (now wife). Since then he's covered college football for CSN Bay Area, gained media access to the Giants, Warriors and 49ers, and built Bay Area Sports Guy into the No. 1 independent Bay Area sports blog. Follow him on Twitter and Facebook.

26 comments

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Stan

If Barry Zito ever prayed to the lord for a redemption game..tomorrow is it. I kinda hope the guy has it go his way for once. Well,other then the 120 million dollars.

Both Cain & Bumgarner have signed long term contracts. Lincecum had his opportunity but he passed on it. Lincecum still has a chance to sign a long term deal this off-season. Right now, Zito, Lincecum, and Vogelsong are all on track to be free agents at the end of 2013. You do not want to risk losing all three pitchers. Of these three, you need to keep at least one to keep pitching as the strength of the team. That pitcher should be Lincecum. He has earned it. I have faith in Posey. Posey is an MVP and as such, he will spark this offense. He has done it before many times during the season and there is no reason that he won't today.

formerKNBRemployee

I agree, in 2013- if the choice is Zito, Vogey or Lincecum- You gotta sign Lincecum, but he is also going to command the most money (if he doesn't repeat his 2012 regular season). I wouldn't be opposed to Zito signing a short term- low salary deal (he already made his money)- and that's only if the Giants don't have a 5th starter in Fresno or Richmond that could replace him... If he is anywhere near the level he was at this year- you'd take that from a 5th starter all the time... I would not have even considered that a few years ago- Nor was anybody, but if he his down right awful- it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Vogelsong is a pitbull, has flashes of brilliance, but right handed, fast ball pitchers are as common in major league baseball as jock strap adjustments... and it's not worth investing big money into that guy long term- if he wants another 2 year deal, at the midrange level- I wouldn't be opposed This all hinges on the offense comnig around- otherwise you are the giants before this era.

Slam

If I was the Giants brass, I would make no effort to extend Lincecum...let the guy earn his $20mill, next year, and if he has a huge year, THEN worry about signing him. And if you ask me, he'll never get back to his Cy Young form When the Giants stop hitting, it seems to snowball, the players grip the bats too tight, and it gets worse ... painful to watch Hey the Reds are the real deal; it's not like The Giants are choking against a bad team

Lime

But before the series started, FITZ on KNBR told everybody that the Reds were horrible and the Giants would easily win!

Otis Byrd III

Yeah, Fitz does look a little bad for that, but I don't think anyone thought the Giants would've struggled with the Reds like they have so far this season.

devnull

Fitz should have stuck with his true expertise: Warriors basketball. [ hahahahahaha!! okay sorry, I thought I could say it with a straight face .... ]

Otis Byrd III

*this series

SantaCruzSpike

Going by the stadium gun at AT&T, MadBum was throwing 92 in the first inning and never topped 90 after.

formerKNBRemployee

to clarify my latter comment: When you are a PAID media "professional" I expect more from your take than "I'm Pissed OFF!" or "They are done, call it"... Great insights boys. I understand they are fans- but they need to be able to seperate that when making "informed" opinions... If I wanted to hear fans talk for hours on end- I'd listen to Marty (who much to his credit, and as I have stated in the past my feelings about the content of his show, ran a GREAT show last night- at least the parts I heard). Seriously, When are talk show hosts going to realize that just because you scream something doesn't make your opinion smarter, more interesting or compelling... I'm not asking for Jim Rome or god forbid Adam Schefter... but c'mon.

formerKNBRemployee

sitting out in bleacher section 143- the fans out there were passionate all night. We were in it until the end. Bringing in Mota is seriously an act of surrender... might as well start waving white towels instead of orange ones. I think Bochy's lack of faith in Lincecum this postseason is going to be a real tipping point. I couldn't imagine Timmy would be comfortable pitching in a big market like LA or NY- I mean if his dad got upset that the BAY AREA was giving Timmy a hard time, imagine what NY would do... Tim Lincecum 2014 opening day starter for your Seattle Mariners... or maybe we could trade Timmy for Alex Rios... Really wish he would have gotten a chance... but DAMN, the Reds killed it last night. Question: Who wins in the battle of manufactured outrage? Townsend or Mr. Relaxing Soak himself? Calling their takes on yesterday's games flaming garbage would be an insult to blazing debris world wide.

Otis Byrd III

As far as your other points, I agree with you on Mota. It feels like whenever Bochy brings him in, he's giving up. I'm really serious when I said that I hope that the Giants don't bring Mota back next season. Yes, he was key to the 2010 team, but last year and this year, he hasn't really done much for this team and of course he was suspended this year, which kind of made matters even worse. But yeah, Mota needs to go. Like I said, there's got to better long relievers out there. As far as Lincecum goes, yeah Bochy's decision to not start him in the NLDS this year, might be a tipping point in whether or not Lincecum decides to stay with the Giants, but Lincecum said that he was ok with the decision, even though he probably has to say that. How would Lincecum look like if he said he was pissed? haha. Yeah, Lincecum probably wouldn't be comfortable pitching in a bigger market like New York or L.A. You make a great point about his Dad. If Lincecum's Dad thinks the Bay Area media is rough, the New York and maybe even the L.A. media would be even rougher if Lincecum had these same struggles pitching for the Yankees or the Dodgers. The Bay Area media probably wouldn't be that bad to Lincecum's Dad if that was the case.... Yeah, Lincecum should either stay with the Giants or go to his hometown Mariners, if things go sour between him and Giants management. It's almost like, you can't really picture Lincecum anywhere else besides here with the Giants or in his hometown of Seattle with the Mariners. I'm sure you were just joking about trading Lincecum for Rios, but I wouldn't do that trade. Praise God that trade didn't happen a few yrs. ago! I think this trade was purposed when Lincecum won his first Cy Young. I mean, yeah, it was tempting back then because Rios was the BlueJays best hitter at the time, and the Giants were coming off a season where their offense was putrid in the 2008 season. Since then, Lincecum has won another Cy Young and a WS, while Rios was hitting well for the BlueJays, but he eventually got traded to the White Sox, and hasn't really hit as well since. I wouldn't do this trade, despite Lincecum's struggles this season.

formerKNBRemployee

Yeah, I was totally joking about Lincecum for Rios. I can't imagine that trade was ever anywhere close to happening. To further the Mota point- We saw him get SHELLED in the last series vs. the Dodgers, are Brad Penny and Shane Loux so bad that Mota seemed like the best option? and I'm sorry but Casilla has got to go as well- he filled in well for a while, but he is too inconsistant. I know Lincecum had bad numbers this year- but throw out the numbers when it comes to the post season... Andy Pettitte- that's all I need to say. I listened to Damon for like 5 minutes yesterday- and he made a great point- Matt Cain has been on this team longer than an Giant- and he has NEVER been the #1 guy (atleast in rotation) his numbers this year justify him pitching in game 1--- but if the Giants lose this series, and Lincecum doesn't even get a shot- I think that's a grave injustice. The Reds are just flat out better- I actually talked to a Reds fan in the 8th inning of game 2, and I told him I thought the Reds were the worst possible matchup- He actually told me that Reds fans felt the Giants were the worst matchup for them too.... This all has very little to do with pitching anyway... The Giants scored 2 runs in 2 games, 1 was on a past ball and the other a solo homerun- 1 baserunner got to 3rd base in game 2- and it came with 2 outs in the 9th. That's not gonna get it done- ever.

Otis Byrd III

I think Townsend and Krueger's (I'm sure you're referring to Krueger, right? LOL) outrage is legit. As we all kind of know by now, Townsend is very invested in the A's. His grandfather managed the team in the 60's for goodness sakes, and he said that the A's are close to his heart, so it seems like his opinions of the A's are very valid, and are to be taken seriously since he's around the team and he's close to the team. Yes, Townsend is kind of an A's homer, but he knows what he's talking about when he talks about the A's. Krueger is of course, a huge Giants fan, and he's usually on point in his opinions and criticisms of the Giants, just like he was when he hosted Sportsphone years ago. If you don't mind me asking, what didn't you like about their criticisms of yesterday's games? I don't recall Townsend or Krueger saying that either series was done, even though I didn't hear Townsend today on his show, or yesterday for A's postgame. I did however hear Krueger say that the Giants need to stop worrying about pitching, and worry about the offense, which he does have a point, and has been kind of saying/alluting to for a while now. The Giants offense was atrocious the first two games of this series.

formerKNBRemployee

OB III- I was always told that you need to "seperate yourself" in this industry. Maybe that screaming, outrage "I'm pissed off" kind of stuff works in NY or Philly- but I don't care for that style. I know Townsend went on post game- but just because you scream, doesn't make it good- and that was tough to listen too. Mr. Cassara's behind hooters- has a WELL DOCUMENTED history of going over board... I prefer when he breaks out those crazy stats or knowledge that makes Gary go bananas- as opposed to blind homerism or excessive personal investment in a sports fan. I could be WAY off base, and if people dig that shit and it works... then ok, it's just not what I like. I don't have anything against these guys personally, I make fun of Larry for the tradeouts, but I don't know either of them- I worked with Larry for a full 49ers season, and I barely knew him... Look at it this way- I know Cumulus is a horrible, soul-sucking place to work, and I still listen from time to time- not nearly as much anymore- but what does that tell you? I love sports.

3rdKing

is there any chance anyone resigns with the Giants? less everyday.... RIDE ON ME GIGANTES...RIDE ON ME!

Sports Girl Liz

This is worse than torture - unfortunately,it just seems like there's a lack of passion. LIke the Giants have started each game accepting that they're going to lose.

Meagan Bacon

I agree, SGL. It's painful. I wish the 49er game would have been scheduled to be played after the Giants game... that way I might not have gone to bed pissed off...

Sports Girl Liz

Never go to bed angry! Might mean a fight is coming up between you and the Giants...

3rdKing

55 won a cy in 2008 55 won a cy in 2009 55 won us a world series in 2010 the Giants betray the main man in 2012 scrubs leading scrubs...tim would have won either game and led the way for the team.. if you don't follow your leader, you be going nowhere.... steroids and no loyalty, The Giants Way

I would definitely go with Cain for Game 4...for a Game 5 where anything can happen. If you don't include Mota in the NLCS roster, who would you choose instead? Loux? Penny? The Reds have been tough at home. Their longest home losing streak this year was 2. The reds have lots of momentum but Voggy can do it in Game 3

Jason

You could see almost right away in game one that the "no offense" version of the Giants was back. It's really annoying to watch visiting teams hit for power no problem at AT&T.

Paperback Writer

I've stuck with the Giants through it all this season, so,won't give up now. I also am a realist and see the dire,straights they are in. The starters and BP are great for the long term due to their depth. BUT in a short series - a lot of this is momentum and who is hot. In 2010 Timmy got hot, Matty was hot, Bum was lights out. Wilson was on fire. A few hits and lighting in a bottle did it while the pitching held other teams off. When Tim struck out 14 against the Braves Lowe for the Braves was nearly as good, they just did not match the A-1 stuff from Cinci this time, so far. Now a big start from Vogey... Could get them to Cain/Timmy for 4 ... Then Zeets and everyone for 5. That's my plan.

Otis Byrd III

Hey BASG, is it ok if I answer your questions? 1. Eh, I'm not sure. Mad Bum has been dealing for pretty much the whole season, barring a couple of starts and of course, the start tonight. I thought for sure Mad Bum would have a good outing tonight, but that just shows you how good and how tough the Reds lineup is. 2. I think Lincecum will re-sign with the Giants. Hopefully the decision to not have him start in this playoff series, will not be a factor, but Lincecum seems to like to pitch for the Giants, and he likes San Francisco. I can't really picture him pitching anywhere else really. Maybe his hometown of Seattle, but can the Mariners afford Lincecum though? He might as well stay here, unless he really wants to pitch for a bigger market team like the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, or dare I say, the Dodgers. 3. I agree. Bochy has to stop pitching Mota. He sucks. He always seems to give it up. I really hope Mota doesn't come back to the Giants next season. Yes, he can be a good long reliever or a mop up man at times, but the guy just sucks overall. There's got to be better long relievers out there. Mota is washed up a this point. I'm sorry. 4. Sadly there haven't been any real bright spots the first two games of this series for the Giants. Maybe Kontos perhaps, Posey's HR last night, and Lincecum pitching 2 shutout innings tonight. That's about it so far really. 5. I'm not sure, but hopefully the Giants can sweep the 3 games in Cincinnati. I agree, it's not over until it's over. We'll see what happens. I'm still kind of bummed/sad about tonight's game, but I won't count the Giants out.

GooseLosGatos

Otis, This is why trading away prospects in a 'dangerous' game. The Giants effectively have a two man dominant staff now. Zachary Wheeler who we traded for Beltron is now rated the number one pitching minor league prospect and projected to be a dominant number one stater. We could have had him under contract for 7 years at 'controlled' salaries. Next year when we have to sign a starter with a 4 ERA at 8 mill PER Giants fans might finally realize that sacrificing minor league for short term gains does not make for a successful franchise unless your team is in LA, NYC or Boston. The only reason the Giants won their only WS in SF is because they developed their minor league talent which was affordable as they were still under arbitration. Giants fans are soon going to truly realize how much starting pitching and building through the farm system matters.

Otis Byrd III

As far as my thoughts on tonight's game, ugh, what a terrible Giants loss tonight. Mad Bum didn't really have it tonight, and the Giants offense didn't show up. I'm not calling it a season yet and hopefully the Giants can regroup in Cincinnati but, what a tough way to start a playoff series. I really thought the Giants would win tonight. What a depressing game. The Reds are a tough team though. They can hit. The Giants aren't facing the Rockies or the D-Backs. Those 3 games in Cincinnati are going to be very difficult, but the Giants have played better on the road this season. We'll see what happens in Cincy. I really hope the season doesn't end on Tuesday. I'm sad, but I won't count the Giants out. They surprised us in 2010. Hopefully they can surprise us again this year. On the bright side, at least the 49ers won today!