What I’m about to do constitutes “beating a dead horse” in many blue states — or “animal husbandry” if you’re in a red state. So, if you have a weak stomach (or think the Raiders have exclusive rights to the term “Nation”), you might want to look away.
In the recent months, I have been increasingly critical of the Oakland Raiders for what I have perceived as the promotion of a particular stereotype: that of violence and marauding. That stereotype, as commenter Tru will point out, is unfair . Many teams and their respective fans, in Tru’s opinion, are guilty of the same transgressions as the Raiders. This certainly may be true, and I appreciate Tru’s willingness to defend a group he identifies so closely with. Still, my — ahem! – true appreciation for Tru is twofold: He reads my critiques, and he thoughtfully responds. This latter point is probably the more important of the two — as you’ll see.
The 49ers and Raiders have been linked in the news twice this week. The first, reported Aug. 18 by CBS’s Clark Judge, was that Jed York had publicly announced his willingness to resume scrimmaging against the Raiders. “We can go to Napa,” York intimated. “They can come here. We can look at a neutral site. It doesn’t have to be a preseason game. We can go to Kezar [stadium, former home of the 49ers, located in Golden Gate Park]. We can go to Youell Field in Oakland [former home of the Raiders] and have an open scrimmage, get a couple thousand fans to come in and see and make it free or do something that raises money for charity — and not worry about having a preseason game; just scrimmage against somebody else.”
Though this could have been public posturing, York seemed to be genuinely enthusiastic about the opportunity of bridging the ever-widening gap between the two organizations and their fan-bases. Beyond that, this move would make sense: It would break the monotony of camp, increase competition, and — as York noted — possibly be free to fans. It would seem to be a win-win-win.
The second newsworthy story was broken by Matthias Gafni of the Contra Costa Times. According to Gafni, two 26-year-old San Francisco 49ers fans are suing their team of allegiance for failing to ”proactively create an environment that was free from fighting, taunting or threatening remarks and/or gestures and gang activity.”
This stems from last August’s preseason game between the 49ers and Raiders, a game in which two men were beaten unconscious and two others were shot. The two litigants in this case, Daniel Long and Gabriel Navarrette, were attacked by a group of men who did not attend the game, but who tailgated in Candlestick’s internal parking lot. While exiting the game, Navarrette was attacked and beaten unconscious by the group of tailgaters. When Long attempted to aid Navarette, he too became a victim, getting shot four times.
Long and Navarette claim that ”Safety concerns expressed more than 25 years earlier had not abated and, in fact, had escalated with the October 2010 stabbing in the parking lot before the Raiders game,” citing the testimony of former and current 49ers, including Joe Montana and Brian Jennings.
Ultimately, Long and Navarette believe the 49ers should have taken heed of the 2009 Raiders-Broncos stabbing incident, as well as the Bryan Stow tragedy, and better equipped themselves to, in the words of Gafni, “handle Raider Nation.”
Therein lies the rub: Implicit in the lawsuit is the idea that the “Raider Nation” is a uniquely violent entity that needs to be dealt with in manner not consistent with the other 31 NFL teams and their fan-bases.
While I cannot say whether or not the “Raider Nation” is any more violent than the “Niner Nation,” “Steeler Nation,” or any other fan base that calls themselves a “Nation,” I can say that I don’t necessarily disagree with the implication. But I must admit the following: I am biased.
Maybe it’s the silver and black motif. Maybe it’s Al Davis. Maybe it’s the fact that my good friend once saw a young boy wearing a Rams’ jersey get spit on by a man in a Raiders’ jersey. Maybe it’s what I’ve seen from a small, but extremely vocal, sect of the “Raider Nation.”
The reaction from Raider fans to this week’s news stories has been dumbfounding. Let’s start with York’s announcement regarding shared practices. Below are some responses taken from the “One Nation Raider Nation” Facebook Page, which has over 3,100 “Likes.” Which is to say, over 3,100 people have the opportunity to enter into the conversation regarding the 49ers-Raiders joint practices. Here are the responses (I’ve blacked out last names to respective anonymity):
I’m not sure what’s worse: the homophobic slang or the fact that no-one joined in to quiet this veritable hate speech. Of the 3,100 Raiders’ fans who could have participated in this discussion in a positive manner, no-one did.
For the sake of comparison, here are responses from the same topic on the SF 49ers – We Want Winners Facebook Page, which has over 1,400 “Likes.” Notice the difference:
Not a single note of hate speech directed toward the Raiders or their fans. In fact, what Jennifer, Roderick and Renix provide are thoughtful responses to a serious issue.
And finally, here are the comments from the CBS Sports story. Again, note the difference in tone between commenters: 
The difference in tone between “topnotchguy562″ and “vml3301″ is staggering. While the former engages in goading banter, the latter bridges on the inappropriate. It is a microcosm for the exchanges that I have seen on social media. Though I am sure these individuals are not the majority, they are the vocal few that the majority seemingly refuses to silence. Roderick is right: One or two criminals (or in this case, commenters) should not be allowed to “shut things down.” They should not be the sole voices for a fan-base. But they are.
Today, when news broke of the lawsuit, it was more of the same. Again, “One Nation Raider Nation” posted the link on their Facebook page, and though the language is different, the story is the same.
The one fan, Juan, who attempts to be the voice of reason, is seemingly drowned out by the others, specifically by Michael. So I replied to Michael, asking why backing down from a fight is the equivalent of being a p-word. My goal was to call into question the hostility between the two teams and the want to abandon civility. The response would suggest I failed. In less than two minutes after posting, my comment was deleted, and I was blocked by “One Nation Raider Nation”.
And so, what I’ve learned is that I appreciate Tru. I appreciate him for never abandoning civility when my opinion diverges from his own. I appreciate him for not abandoning this website when we are critical of the “Nation” to which he aligns himself. Ultimately, though, I wish those fans like Tru were more prominent. Because when they are silent, the fans that dominant the conversation are single-minded, looking for fights, not good football. But the worst part is they give truth to an unfair stereotype.


















49ers Hot Read
49ersnews.com
49erswebzone.com
Niner Insider
Athletics Nation
95.7 FM The Game
Bay Area Sports Talk
Popblerd
Ray Ratto – CSNBA
Ruthless Sports
Giants Extra
Giants Talk
Giants365.com
GiantsPod
Optioned to Fresno
Fangraphs
Pro Football Talk
Feltbot's Warriors Blog
Joe Lacob & Co. [libelous slander]
WarriorsCentral.com

I am a clean-cut, college-educated "yuppie" Raider fan and I've observed up close how horrible many Raider fans are. Total LOSERS. And I've been caught in the cross fire and have had to wiggle out of some uncomfortable situations. There is no answer, no solution. Just enough jackasses to make the rest of us look bad. I don't blame the 49ers for pulling the plug on the preseason game, why put up with the headache ?
While I appreciate the thought put into this article, I find it terribly askew. I am an actual East Bay native (shocking these days) and have been a Raider fan all my life. Never fought physically over my team. Never really laid into fans from any other team, even the Chiefs. I go and support my team and if I can't make a game, I'll be at Ricky's watching. Are there "thug" or "knucklehead" Raider fans? Of course there are. But I promise you there are just as many Niner fans that fall under those tags as well. What hasn't been mentioned here are a few things. 1. Territory and gangs. The Niner colors are red and gold. You know what else is red up in this area? Thats right, the Norteno street gangs. Raider colors have always been associated with street/prison/bad boy culture, but mix in the gangs and territories, well now you have a whole new kind of monster that has nothing to do with football. 2. Alcohol. I will bet dollars to donuts that 99% of these fights, attacks, whatever you want to call them are a result of people getting completely wasted and creating a mob mentality. And Niner fans get just as wasted as Raider fans. Anyone who thinks otherwise has their heads burried in the sand. 3. Internet bravado. People get pretty damn brave typing behind a screen in their mom's basement. To use blogs as an example for anything is pretty short sighted. People make up fake accounts just to troll and harass people for no other reason than they want to spread their misery. This is one of the few sites that does NOT do that, and it is a breath of fresh air. Look at 95.7's FB page. They encourage the hate between sports teams and fan the flames given the chance. Sounding posts like that are part of the problem, not part of the solution. It's petty East Coast shit and I don't like it at all. Before pigeonholing an entire fan base, remember who reads these posts. There are A LOT of Raider fans here and around that just want to cheer for our team. It is exhausting to keep having to defend ourselves.
Too many people ("fans", some would say) derive their sense of self-worth, individual importance, identity, etc. from their favorite sports team(s). So any perceived (real or otherwise) attack on said team is taken as a personal affront, demanding immediate, and usually escalating, retaliation. I certainly enjoy when my teams play well, but I'm not about to punch somebody (or visa versa) over it if they don't.
While I do appreciate the nice words and our past dialogue, I am not sure I agree with the point of this piece (surprise, I know.) I've always maintained that there are a huge amount of NFL fans who are basically cavemen and they are spread pretty evenly out over the league. Certainly some fan bases are more vocal or rowdy than others, but generally, most fans just want to root for their team. I don't see how looking at blog posts is any sort of indication of anything. The internet is a bastion for idiots. If you want evidence of an actual violent mentality among some fans look at the news, you'll find a similar amount of both Raider and 49er fans who have engaged in violence. Beatings, shootings, stabbings, even a murder by a 49er fan. It's usually some gangbanger or a drunken idiot who needs to prove self worth through their football squad. Plus, I think if there is extra bitterness from Raider fans online it's because we are raised to "hate" the 49ers. I mean the Raiders were the unquestioned kings of the Bay Area, our team was stolen, the 49ers became a dynasty, we came back and have struggled since (we also have the constant threat of our team being stolen again.) However if online trash talking equaled a violent mentality, any teenager who played Halo or Call of Duty would be viewed as dangerous (the filth said by those kids is insane.) I still maintain that the negative Raider fan image started in LA with NWA videos, SoCal gangbangers repping the colors, the bad atmosphere at the L.A. Coliseum, etc. Before that the Oakland crowd was just seen as blue collar. I think that since they've been back the stigma isn't going away because of the team colors, a large minority fan base, and the fact that they play in a city like Oakland that is always presented as being "dangerous." But trust me, most Raider fans are like family and they just want to enjoy the game day experience.
I've got to agree about the LA comment. I had season tickets at the Oakland Coliseum from '95 to '03 and the group of people I sat by were great. I brought my Bronco fan father-in-law every year to the Bronco game and he took a little good natured abuse, but nothing extreme. But these were the regular fans who were there week in and week out. There always seemed to be a rougher contingent that were there during pre-season games. And I tried to avoid the San Diego game because of all the So Cal people that commuted down for their 1 game a year to get drunk and raise hell. Perhaps I'm stereotyping, but this is the reality I experienced for those 9 seasons. Ultimately, when my daughter was born I switched over and bought tickets to the Sharks. It's a much friendlier family atmosphere.
Oh, and I forgot one more thing to include into AJ's and your's conversation. It's true that a lot of these things we hear about between the franchises' are media driven. We'll hear about KTVU or CBS report a shooting or an attack, but that's it. We'll never hear anything else. Maybe it's cause they believe the fear of that happening to us in a way drives us to safety (by staying away from those games). Maybe it's a different perspective. Either way, like you two, I too believe there are those feel good stories that can "move the needle" about a 49ers and Raiders fan coming together as one having a rational debate about each other's team. We just will never hear about it ... at least from our local news station or ESPN. It really is that you have to rely on bloggers to hear THOSE kinds of stories.
Strong piece, EBSG. I just began my 3rd year in college and I'm sharing a room with a Lakers/Dodgers/Raiders fan, while I'm a Warriors/Giants/49ers fan. While it's a little different situation because we've been friends for a few years now, we still give each other a hard time every now and then when we discuss our teams (sometimes the homer side of us unleashes randomly), but at the end of the day we can still have a rational discussion about how we wish so and so would do this and that to improve our teams. That's the one thing that hurts this "rivalry." You go to these games and you try to start a civil debate only at times get a vulgar, biased response in return. It's unfortunate and I just don't understand the point of it. But it happens and I'm just not sure what more each franchise can do to fix it. It's just one of those things that will likely not go away.
This is just sad. We have a pretty big party every Sunday during the NFL season with at least 30-40 in attendance. We have fans of the Niners, Cowboys, Raiders, Broncos, Packers, Redskins, Giants, Colts, and Pats. We give each other a hard time, but nothing out of hand. A couple weeks ago, I went to the Giants/Dodgers game with a friend up from LA sporting the blue. We got a couple of comments like "you've got the wrong hat" or "how you can hang out together", but nothing close to derogatory or threatening. When people said their comments, they had smiles on their faces. At a Sharks game a year ago, I was sitting next to 2 LA KIngs fans and we spent half the game discussing the good and bad of the teams we root for. Last season at a Sharks/Ducks game, my friend and I took a couple Ducks fans over to Patty's Bar and they covered our tab for being so cool. It's too bad these are not the stories you about more. But then again, they don't "move the needle".
Perfectly said. I've been a Sharks season ticket holder for awhile, and the Tank is a generally civilized place where not a lot more than some good natured ribbing and jeering happens. However, one drunk bitch knocks a girl over and sends her to the hospital (my tone is pissed at the drunk turd, not marginalizing the event) and suddenly its all over the news and people are declaring Sharks fans to be barbarians when 99.9% of the time there aren't issues. With that said, I've found football fans in general to be some of the worst offenders in the taking it too far category, both Raiders and Niners (I am a Niner fan). And while I feel like throwing some stones from a glass house, I have found Raider fans to be some of the worst and some of the best, but what will always be highlighted by the new is the actions of the worst because it moves the needle. Sports reporting (actually any kind of reporting) is all based on what moves the needle. ESPN is a few wild rumor stories a week away from being TMZ. Lastly, Philadelphia fans are the biggest barbarians in any sport, hands down.
I'm not sure this moves the needle, AJ. Or at least, it doesn't move it into the direction I'd like. I was hoping that by highlighting Tru I would be discussing the brighter-side. Perhaps the piece fell short.
EBSG - and when I wrote "this is sad", that was directed toward your top screenshot of comments with all the needless derogatory comments.
You're right. We do most hear about the bad stuff. I've been in opposing team's stadiums plenty of times and have never had a bad experience. I do think that sort of story would move the needle. I just need to find it.
EBSG - I enjoyed the article and don't think it fell short. The thing is, you can't point out a bright side without looking at the problem. And unfortunately, it's the problem that moves the needle. You rarely hear stories of fans of opposing teams coming into the local barn that are cool people with clever quips or comments. It's always the bad apples that get the press. I know I have had my share of games where either I or someone else had to remind an unruly idiot that it's only sports. Luckily in my case, that's been the exception rather than the rule.
Compare to the civilized British fans and soccer..
Blog posters? You cant paint the fans by that. And if you want to compare to the 49er blog..well,I think they sound gentrified compared to most other NFL team blogs,FB,et al. Most of those Raider Nation idiots who post stupid things..are stupid people. Many sports fans are..like in real life.