As Joey McMurry pointed out yesterday, A’s vs. Giants isn’t exceedingly bitter and venomous, at least as far as classic rivalries go. On the other hand, the owners in Oakland and San Francisco possess more than enough vitriol to go around. John Fisher and Lew Wolff want to move to San Jose. The San Francisco Giants call San Jose their territory, because Walter Haas and the Oakland A’s ceded rights to San Jose to the Giants a couple decades ago.
(Yes, it’s a familiar yet tedious story, but keep reading and for a way to make this saga work for you with today’s “Rivals Week” contest, courtesy of DIE HARD CO...)
Now the Giants refuse to hand that territory back, and Bud Selig and the rest of Major League Baseball are in no hurry to step in and settle this squabble. Selig was/is more worried about the respective ownership situations for the New York Mets and Los Angeles Dodgers, and appears content to wait for the Giants and A’s to come to a resolution on their one, one which would only arise if the teams were forced into an agreement. Talk about a stalemate. And since no MLB owner wants their territorial rights taken away for “the good of the game,” the situation is such that the Athletics are the only party motivated to affect change. Well, San Jose might be interested in seeing the A’s move south, but no one cares what cities think until they’re voting on whether or not to provide money for stadium projects.
I’ve glossed over several important points (many of which can be found at the freakishly comprehensive new A’s ballpark, which focuses on the politics, logistics and drama surrounding this and every other stadium situation one can think of), but it’s pretty easy to pinpoint what’s really going on in a broader sense. The Giants feel strongly that a large percentage of their revenue stream and franchise value stems from their relationships with Silicon Valley businesses and executives, as well as San Jose residents. As such (and because everybody has a price), it would take a Mt. Tam-sized pile of money to get the Giants to change their minds and wish Wolff and Fisher good luck in a new South Bay home called Cisco Field (or whatever it would end up being known as, if/when the thing ever gets built).
The A’s are hoping either MLB will force the issue (good luck) or the Giants will suddenly become generous (no chance).
As a result, the gap between the A’s and Giants is widening, in part because the A’s seem set on proving just how screwed they are, and no A’s fans are happy. Some want the A’s to stay in Oakland, but the A’s don’t seem interested. Many want the A’s to move to a new city (further away from the Giants than their current one), and are furious with MLB and its so-called “blue ribbon committee” for letting the issue linger for years without so much as a report or recommendation. They’re also furious at the Giants for blocking what to many is an obvious and beneficial move for everyone … except the Giants.
Will we see the San JosA’s in our lifetime? It’s questionable. In the meantime, what do you think?
Today’s Contest!
As you probably have noticed, we’re collaborating with DIE HARD CO. on daily contests from Monday through Friday of “Rivals Week.” Two more winners will get a shirt based off this post, just like the ones on Monday and Tuesday.
Here’s what you have to do:
Since everyone has an opinion, both on what SHOULD be done to settle the territorial rights issue and what they think WILL happen, to enter today’s contest you have to provide both answers in the comments.
For example:
“The A’s should trade Brandon Moss to the Giants for Barry Zito and territorial rights to San Jose.
“What’ll I think will actually happen: the Giants will hand AT&T Park to the A’s, move to Silicon Valley and become the Big League San Jose Giants.”
Clearly I’m joking on both of those answers. However, I’m sure that, as always, the commenters will be able to raise the level of discourse.
Two comments will be randomly selected to win a shirt from DIE HARD CO., so they can sport their colors no matter what Bay Area city their favorite team calls home (either now or in the future). I’m looking forward to the responses here, because I’m certain that the people who read this site will have some creative ideas on how to settle this territorial rights dispute.














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Both the Giants Athletics have storied franchises The Giants have won a total of 6 world Series and The Athletics have won 9. But as Bay Area teams the Athletics display 4 trophies to the Giants 1. The Giant have an arrogance about them, often claiming that this is giants county etc.. The fact of the matter is that this is who ever is winning territory. With a new Athletics ballpark, the playing field will become more level. the Giants fear a prevailing fear. The Giants will not allow the Athletics to equal or potentially surpass them in Bay Area popularity. The Giants know that they can't argue with 4 World Series trophies. So, I don't believe that the Giants will make any concessions in regards to San Jose. Eventually this will end up in court with Major Legue Baseball's anti-trust at stake. The City of Oakland will eventually commit to keeping the Raiders as their number 1 priority and the A's will in the distant future under new ownership play in a new privately funded ballpark near Jack London Square.
In regards to the Warriors, they are gone! They will abandon some of the most loyal fans in the NBA for the sexy trendy SF spot.
As far as the Warriors go, I see what you mean, but those same fans can come to San Francisco. Yeah, sadly some fans will priced out when the Warriors move here to San Francisco, but as Joe Lacob said, half of the Warriors fanbase is here in San Francisco, so it's not like the Warriors are moving to Anaheim or Seattle, where they would have to generate a whole new fanbase. Yeah, there probably will be somewhat of a different fanbase when the Warriors move here to San Francisco, but a lot of the same fans who are going to Oracle now, are going to come to Warrior games here in San Francisco. Yeah, some of the real diehard Oakland fans might not come, but if the Warriors are winning, maybe they might change their minds? I understand that this will be tough for Oakland, and I like Oracle Arena, but moving to San Francisco will be good for the Warriors franchise in the long-run, as far as adding value to the franchise goes, and them possibly having a better chance to bring in free agents, go. If you were the Warriors, wouldn't you explore moving to San Francisco as well? I think we all would. Nothing against Oakland, but you got to take advantage of looking into moving to San Francisco, if the opportunity presented itself. Plus, the Warriors have history here in San Francisco. The Warriors wanting to move to San Francisco, kind of reminds me of the Nets wanting to move to Brooklyn, and now their official move to Brooklyn. The Nets move probably has a lot to do with trying to compete with the Knicks, but I'm sure they wanted to improve the value of that franchise and to try to land free agents. Suddenly Dwight Howard could be in the mix for players they could trade for or sign in the near future. That might not have happened if they stayed in New Jersey. Plus, the Nets have history in NYC, like the Warriors have history here in San Francisco. Yeah, NYC is more of a Knicks town when it comes to basketball, but with the Nets moving to Brooklyn and if they make some noise, they could turn heads there perhaps, and maybe challenge the Knicks. I don't know if Knicks fans will turn into Nets fans, as the Nets owner Prokorov (sp?) wants. LOL At least the Warriors wouldn't have to worry about competing with another NBA team in the Bay Area with their plans on moving here to San Francisco. Yeah, the Nets moving to Brooklyn might not directly relate to the Warriors wanting to move to San Francisco, but it's somewhat similar. The Nets are moving from Newark, New Jersey to a bigger market and bigger city in Brooklyn. The Warriors want to move from Oakland, to a bigger city in San Francisco.
Ok, here are my predictions: What I think should happen is, the A's stay in Oakland, and they end up building a stadium in Jack London Square. I agree with this idea. They probably don't have no other choice really. Is San Jose really that realistic for them? We're seeing that the Giants aren't giving up those territorial rights. The A's belong in Oakland, and the Jack London Square location makes the most sense for the A's to build a new stadium in Oakland. What I think will happen is, MLB decides to give up on trying to help the A's move to San Jose because of the Giants not willing to give up the territorial rights, and because of how slow this process has become with the A's and the San Jose thing, so the A's owners end up being forced by MLB to sell the team to a group of owners who would be committed to keeping the team in Oakland. This has been brought up too, and I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. What Lew Wolff is doing the A's is as what Mychael Urban would say is, "bad for ball". It's just not good man. I'm a Giants fan, and even I feel kind of bad for A's fans in all this. The A's need a new stadium, and they should stay in Oakland.
I agree that the A's aren't going to move to San Jose. There's just too many hurdles, and there's no way the Giants are giving up their territorial rights to the A's. Plus, where would they build a stadium in San Jose? I guess near HP Pavilion as has been said in the past, but how would people get down there via public transportation? I guess BART when BART eventually goes to San Jose, but yeah, the San Jose thing probably won't happen. There's just too many questions and hurdles. I agree that the A's belong in Oakland. I don't think the Giants-A's rivalry would be the same if the A's moved to San Jose, even though it would be somewhat intensified with the territorial rights angle. Also, why haven't the A's looked into building a new stadium in Jack London Square? It seems like this gets brought up a lot, and a lot of people have suggested the A's should move there. Why not build a new stadium in Jack London Square? It's kind of interesting how Lew Wolff is so focused on moving the A's to San Jose, that he hasn't really looked at all of the options in keeping the A's in Oakland. He's turning his back on Oakland. Jack London Square would actually be a nice spot for the A's. If Jack London Square isn't a possibility or doesn't work, why not just tear down the Coliseum and build a new stadium where the Coliseum currently stands? I don't get why teams with older stadiums or arenas don't look into just tearing down their current older stadium/arena, and building a new one where the current one stands. If the A's did this, they would still have BART access to their games since BART stops right in front of the Coliseum and they would be in a new stadium. I guess the only issue with this would be where the A's would play for a season or two, if the Coliseum was torn down, and a new stadium was built where it currently stands. The Giants probably wouldn't allow the A's to play at AT&T for a season or two, even though it would probably make the most sense for the A's to play there, if this happened. The A's would probably just play in Sacramento for a year or two. But yeah, the A's not exhausting all of their options to possibly stay in Oakland by looking into building a new stadium in Jack London Square, or even tearing down the Coliseum and building a new stadium there, is kind of surprising. What are they going to do if the San Jose thing doesn't happen? Has Lew Wolff seriously thought about that? I think Tierney and Townsend basically asked him about that a couple of weeks ago, and the guy doesn't even have a Plan B. That's got to be concerning for A's fans. He's all in for the San Jose thing though.
The city of Oakland has given no assistance to the A's in their search for a new ballpark. The city of San Jose has bent over backwards. San Jose is a way to keep the A's in the Bay Area, and is by far preferable as a site to any logical owner who isn't looking to throw away money. In the 1990s, the A's ownership extended a helping hand to the Giants, allowing them to stay in the Bay Area. In 2012, the Giant ownership seeks to squeeze the A's out of the region, Neither LA, Chicago, or NY has "territorial rights". Why is this an issue? What should happen? The A's and Giants should make a deal to get the A's to San Jose. What will happen? The A's and Giants will make a deal to get the A's to San Jose.
The A's are not and will never attain favorite son status in the bay area. The Giants are beloved and the A's barely survive on the scraps. I think the A's should move to Sacramento, a town that has proven to be supportive of a major franchise and a much closer commute to the valley baseball fans. That drive to Bart at Pleasanton from points south, the commute to Embarcadero station then the train ride to the park is insane. Not to mention the return trip and hoping you get home before 2am. Not that all the Giants fans down here would suddenly become A's fans but I would go to Sacramento to see major league ball.
For being loved the Giants were one foot out of the door to Tampa Bay. Not to mention the fact that the A's usually drew more fans than the Giants before At&t. Seems like a lot of Giant fans are either clueless or are trying to erase what has been trends in Bay Area baseball history. Both teams have done well, the Giants lucked out with the new park and the A's have been saddled with some crappy ownership groups.
Tru, You have to excuse some of these posts, allot of these Giants fans are either... A: Became Giants fans after AT&T was built. B:Became Baseball fans after AT&T was built, because it became the cool place to hang out. C:Became Giants/Baseball fans after their WS win. D: All of the above. You can really read through them, allot of the posts are really Insightful and Intelligent...And some of the others, well not so much. LETS GO OAKLAND!!!
That's idiotic. Where you there after the 3straight WS Tom? were you beating the cowbells along with tens of thousands?..When the Giants had nothing but seagulls. The A's paraded in big Yellow Caddy convertibles a half block long and 4 mpg! If there is one thing to damn KNBR (or one more) Its that the Giants own the bay area. That's Baer's Nazi inspired big lie and propaganda-..and borrowed I admit by Wollf and Fisher to highlight their lack of morals. Say it over and over until the masses believe. I'm a mass of too oldness and wiseness to let that get to me. Screw 'em!
Agree to give Larry Baer a some plastic surgery so his head doesnt look like a stalk of broccoli with eyes.
It's unfortunate, but I think the As will need to leave the Bay Area to survive. That's my prediction. What I'd like to see happen is a joint facility development agreement between the As and the Warriors. Two ball parks on the water sounds great to me!
I refuse to play along with that scum Fisher. HE ALONE could afford to tear down or renovate the Coloseum. GET OUT you shiester and take pretty boy and the Bronx mobster with you...
A's pack up and move to Sacramento, The Giant's ownership group go swimming in their cash like Scrooge McDuck from Ducktales.....Woohoo.
You don't need a degree in phrenology (if there was one) to see John Fisher a crusty greedy SOB,not to be ever trusted. And his owning the A's is more proof. He's a straight out liar. See,this is the way of the greedy bastard..to to tell lies because in their vanity they think they are so superior to us common folk,they think we cant see the most blatant bs. John Fisher hides in his hole rubbing those liver spotted hands(hitting the bottle a lot ain't ya John?) together just in a euphoria of his MLB welfare. More is just not enough. Sell the team you ass. THAT'S the answer.
The A's will acquire the contracts for both Barry Zito and Tim Lincecum in exchange for the Giants giving up the San Jose battle. They will then build a monument in the outfield of the new stadium in honor of Al Davis and the Colosseum - Mt. Davis V 2.0!
I wish the A's would follow the Warriors to SF and have both teams share the City. If Chicago, LA, NY, and DC/Bal can have two teams then so can SF. Obviously some SERIOUS cash & draft picks need to be parted with to have the deal make sense. What will happen instead is that the A's join the Kings in Sac instead of the Dubyas in SF.
I was really interested in the reports that a developer wanted to make a waterfront stadium for the A's in Oakland. That is a stadium I'd like to visit! Get the ferries runnin there and make sure they are in town when Giants are out of town and they could gain a lot of fans. Also, if the San Francisco 49ers can play their games in Santa Clara, why can't the Oakland A's build a stadium right on the edge of Contra Costa/Santa Clara counties? It wouldn't be in San Jose, but it would be close. The public transportation would be worse, but maybe they could build up the BART system to extend wherever the A's go. No matter what happens, it's going to cost money, and current fans may complain. If the team can stay closer to their current location, they wouldn't alienate the local fans by making it cost more to get to the park on top of everything else. Great discussion question!
What could happen: The Giants make the A's not only pay for the rest of the Mortgage on AT&T Park- for the rights to San Jose- but they force the A's to change their colors to Purple and Pink... San Jose, ashamed- makes the A's play at Muni Stadium (home of the SJ Giants)- the loud colors of the Purple and Pink A's uniforms- melts the Ice at nearby "Sharks Ice at San Jose"- causing a flood on Alma St. Subsequently, the flood carries over to the Japanese Friendship Gardens- near Kelley Park (across the street from Muni Stadium) and the Koi pond floods- spilling over and littering the streets of downtown San Jose with Koi fish- Not being a delicious fish they go uneaten and spoil under the hot august San Jose sun. With Downtown San Jose smelling like rotten fish, many residents to leave for the neighboring city of Milpitas, causing Milpitas' population to rise 200% and it takes over as the 3rd most populated city in America, right behind New York and LA... Eventually the Giants move to Milpitas, wanting to grab some of that sweet metropolis for themselves. Leaving AT&T Park as a permanent home to the X Games. The A's move to Seattle, change their colors back to yellow and green and change their name to the "super sonics" and go on to win 7 NBA titles with Greg Oden. What will really happen: Giants don't budge on territorial rights. A's get fed up and move to Portland- limiting the Mariners travel within the Division, the additional rest makes Seattle a power house and they win 14 consecutive AL pennants- However, the Giants, reignited as the Bay unites behind a single team- take that surge and win 14 consecutive NL pennants- beating the Mariners in the World Series every single year. The Mariners replaces the Bills as the most disappointing consecutive championship loss team- disheartened with all the West Coast bias... the Yankees and Redsox leave Major League baseball to form their own league in which they play each other 162 times a year- ESPN carries every game in prime time. The Orioles and Rays become NL East powerhouses. Thats EXACTLY what will happen.
hahahahahaha. Your post made me crack up man. LOL. Wow. I know your just joking and being facetious here, right? hahahahahaha
After exhausting San Jose, the A's will stay in Oakland. Build a baseball only stadium near Jack London and except the fact that they'll always be an Farm Franchise for the Yankees.
I like your outcome except for the "Farm Franchise" part. It's hard to be a "Farm Franchise" when you're third all-time in World Series victories. Heck, during the Haas years the A's payroll was highest in baseball. Ownership's vision is what will dictate where payroll is at.
Wolff has turned them into a Farm Franchise. His #1 concern is maximizing his financial return.
True, this ownership is horrendous, but hopefully they sell to local Bay area interests, ASAP. Still, while ownership rotates the franchise legacy remains, that was my point.
My bad, John Fisher is really to blame.
The A's Should stay in Oakland and build their park at Jack London Square. However, unfortunately, I think the A's Will keep pushing for San Jose, lose, and then re-locate out of state. Let's Go,...Oakland!
Since the Giants have proven to me that they are incompetent in spending large sums of money wisely in the recent past I believe that they need to limit the amount that they receive, and thus invest directly into the Giants system as a whole. I want the A's 2013, and 2015 first round draft pick (if we take succeeding years they will be less likely to do it), an A's top pitching prospect (Like the Giants the A's are heavy in pitching prospects and not hitting; therefore, we take him and add it to one of our many we have in the low minors and trade for a bat we will have control of for a while), the rest of the money owed on Zito's contract (to buy him out), and some where between $5 to $10 million a year for the first three years that the A's have moved into their new stadium since they will be practically printing it at the park. This limits the amount of straight cash the front office will spend, and forces them to invest into the future product on the field, and hopefully with what money they do receive they will be able to keep our stars under contract for a while (Posey, Sandoval, and whatever other stud we get in between know and when they come up) and ML power bat.
There is no amount of money the A's could possibly pay the Giants, they relied heavily on San Jose to build their Park...But just for fun here are my options. The A's trade Parker, Milone, Weeks, Redik, and ONE BILLION Dollars for the Rights. This CRAPPY ownership sells the team to the local group that has shown interest and they follow the Giants Blue print for success and build a new park in Oakland...Exactly where they belong. This CRAPPY ownership sells the team to a group that moves the team back to Philly...As much as that hurts to think about you could almost see that happening.
The A's belong in Oakland, not San Jose. I'm glad the Giants are holding fast to the territorial rights. A new A's park in Oakland with bay views would be amazing and a huge success. Lew Wolff's pouting and burying his head in the sand is just killing the franchise. San Jose is not going to happen.
A black eye for whom? The fans will get a playoff format that makes sense. The TV people will get higher ratings. The owners will get more money because they don't have to share money with the A's & Rays - two teams that benefit the most from revenue sharing. The players on the contracted teams will still get to play but for other teams. Sounds like a good deal to me.
A black eye for MLB. Can you imagine any other successful sports league where a franchise that is 3rd in championships and a charter member of the league is contracted? That would be like contracting the Packers, the Bruins, the Bulls, etc. If anything MLB needs to get its revenue sharing system put together in a way that is closer to the NFL system. Having over a half of your league guaranteed to not compete by Spring Training is not a good thing. Besides, things change. Your Giants (I'm assuming) would have been under the contraction umbrella during the Tampa Bay days and the A's were the kings of baseball. Your reasoning comes across as really short sighted and mean spirited. I'm sure you have friends and family who are A's fans who would be crushed if that scenario ever happened, they wouldn't matter to you?
Agreed. Even with the HUGE payroll difference, the seperation between the A's & Giants is what? 4 wins with the A's playing in the tougher American League. There is no amount of money the A’s could possibly pay the Giants. The Giants will push for the A's to get out of the bay area so they can have the whole bay area market to themselves. My preferred scenario. Contract the A's & Rays so that MLB has exactly 28 teams. 14 teams in the NL & 14 teams in the AL. Two divisions in the NL & AL. Four teams in each league make the playoffs -2division winners and 2 wild card teams. The contracted players on the A's & Rays get dispersed to other teams in a draft. Any existing contracts that they have (i.e.: Suzuki & his 3 yrs/$15.65M contact) will be honored by their new teams.
The A's franchise has been around for about a hundred years and is third in WS wins. If MLB contracts them it would be a HUGE black eye.
The Giants should allow the A's to play in San Jose for a large upfront fee and annual compensation for the first 10 years of playing there. The compensation would have to be enough to offset the loss of their Silicon Valley relationships, which would convert to A's endorsements. I think what will actually happen is the issue is deadlocked indefinitely and the A's do leave northern California to settle in sunny Portland, OR.
There's little chance the A's will stay in Oakland and no chance they'll move to San Jose. To stay in Oakland, the A's would need a new stadium, which would raise ticket prices and price out the handful of fans that still go to A's games. To move to San Jose, the Giants would have to devalue their business by handing over their territory, which no sane business person would do. I could see the Las Vegas A's...maybe not.
Seriously, the A's will probably end up paying 10-20 million a year to the Giants for a number of years, MLB will guarantee a certain franchise value should the ownership group sell and then they will finally relent and finally let them move to San Jose. Maybe the Giants will end up with an ownership stake in Comcast California similar to how the Orieols have an ownership in the RSN that broadcasts National's games. The other option is that Fisher and Wolf get too fed up and sell to another group who looks at locations outside of the Bay Area.
The A' will move to Ensenada, Mexico and become the Athleticos!
As a Giants representative, I will trade Amy G, garlic fries and the San Jose territorial rights for the entire A's farm system (yes, pitching included). We can throw in Barry Zito's hair and Aubrey Huff's flat tire running style as well
While I appreciate the response, remember we're also looking for what you think will ACTUALLY HAPPEN. And not to be a Debbie Downer, but while I'm sure we'll get some pretty humorous comments in response to this post (especially after my ludicrous example), but I'm also interested in some logical answers to this problem ... especially since MLB seems to be out of ideas.
My bad. Guess I misunderstood the premise here. The A's should just give the Giants and undisclosed (and extremely large) sum of money, and the Giants should take it in exchange for the rights to SJ. I guarantee the A's moving to San Jose won't even put a dent in the Giants fan base or attendance numbers. If the years following the G's WS win has proven anything, it's that there are Giants fans ALL OVER the place, not just in SF and the South Bay.