Warriors vs Kings: Who’s got the better young core?

East Bay Sports Guy July 16, 2012

I’ve been doing quite a bit of these comparison posts lately. If you’re wondering whether or not I have developed a complex, the answer is: Yes, I have. Consider these posts as pleas for help.

Anyway, following the draft, twitter was a flutter with exclamatory posts regarding the strength of the Warriors young core. If memory serves me correctly, the general tenor was something along the lines of “I’ll take this roster, I guess” and “At least we’re not the Bobcats.”

Surpisingly, Sacramento Kings’ fans shared in Warriors’ fans optimism. It’s a wonder that Kings’ fans still care, given how badly the team has managed recently. That is to say, I thought Kings’ fans would be extinct—in Sacramento anyway (they’re probably alive and well in Seattle).

In any case, I wondered which team actually had the better core of young players. It would appear as though the Kings and Warriors are veritable equals.

Golden State Warriors
Name	POS	AGE	GP	TS%	TOR	ORtg	DRtg	WS	PER
A. Bogut	C	27	12	55.5	15.3	94	100	0.5	14.9
D. Lee	PF	28	57	54.9	12.5	108	109	5.0	19.7
K. Thompson	SG	21	66	54.5	11.96	102	111	1.7	14.95
S. Curry	PG	23	26	60.5	17.03	112	108	2.2	21.44
C. Jenkins	PG	23	28	48.2	16.3	100	112	0.4	12.4
J. Jack	PG	28	45	54.0	14.1	109	108	2.4	17.9
A. Biedrins	C	25	47	58.1	17.1	118	105	1.3	8.8
Sacramento Kings
Name	POS	AGE	GP	TS%	TOR	ORtg	DRtg	WS	PER
D. Cousins	C	21	64	49.9	12.75	102	104	4.2	21.74
J. Thompson	PF	25	64	55.8	11.5	115	109	3.9	16.38
T. Evans	SF	22	63	51.2	14.44	103	111	2.7	16.52
M. Thornton	SG	24	51	54.4	8.75	111	112	3.8	17.41
I. Thomas	PG	22	65	57.6	13.9	116	113	4.3	17.75
J. Fredette	PG	22	61	49.5	12.5	100	114	0.5	10.8
C. Hayes	PF	28	54	42.9	21.1	98	109	0.1	8.9

Age: Is a complex formula. In its basic form, age equals the player’s birth subtracted from the current year. In its more complex form, age is some weird amalgamation of clothing, plastic surgery, and money spent on cars.

TS%: True Shooting Percentage is a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.

TOR: Turnover Rate, or Turnover Percentage is an estimate of turnovers per 100 plays.

ORtg: Offensive Rating is points produced per 100 possessions.

DRtg: Defensive Rating is points allowed per 100 possessions.

WS: Win Shares is an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player.

PER: Performance Rating is rating based on a player’s positive accomplishments minus their negative ones.

Analysis:

Each team has one above average player (Cousins and Curry), but beyond those two, each has a dearth of talent.

Bogut’s poor season might be explained by his injury, but his career PER is only 17. So, while he’s an upgrade over Biedrins, it would be absurd to expect much out of him.

That Isaiah Thomas finished behind Thompson in Rookie of the Year voting is dumbfounding. I realize Thompson’s final six weeks were rivaled only by Kyrie Irving, but, as you can see, he was hardly the player Thomas was. If Thompson made huge strides last year, as Marc Jackson believes, where did Thompson start from?

Speaking of Thomas, what an absolute steal he could turn out to be for the Kings. He clearly needs to improve his defense, which might be difficult given his size, but quickness and court vision like his don’t often come in pairs.

Name	POS	AGE	GP	TS%	TOR	ORtg	DRtg	WS	PER
H. Barnes	SF	20	75	52.4	11.1	109.9	96.4	8.7	20.3
T. Robinson	PF	21	105	55.0	15.6	108.5	85.3	11.9	26.1

Each team clearly needs a strong defensive presence. Such a need likely explains each teams’ 2012 draft pick.

With relatively weak offensive abilities, it seems unlikely either Thomas Robinson or Harrison Barnes will be asked to do anything other than defend. If their defensive skills translate to the NBA, their teams will benefit greatly, especially Sacramento.

In all, neither team skill level separates itself from the other. Both are composed of players who possess equal parts skill and inexperience. It would seem the team destined to have the better season would be the team that is better coached. Warriors’ fans should know which team that will be.

About the Author

A resident of Oakland, East Bay Sports Guy (otherwise known as Scott Preston) often spends his time wearing v-necks--sometimes deep, sometimes not--and watching the teams that play in the Coliseum. You can follow Scott @EBSportsGuy.

26 comments

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Eric He

No doubt the Warriors do. Curry, Thompson, and Barnes will all be All-Stars some day.

Slack'em Jack'em

I think what makes this comparison difficult to answer is that ultimately the analysis of the Warriors depends on health. Tell me now that Bogut and Curry are playing 80 games...and my decision is easy. We are likely looking at a low playoff seeding. Tell me they both play 30 games, and we are all discussing to what degree next years lottery pick is protected. Anyway, assuming everyone is healthy..... I like Cousins, but will take a healthy Bogut over Cousins due to the previously mentioned character issues. I think most will agree a healthy Curry is a no-brainer over either Thomas or Tyreke at point... I think Klay Thompson is a guy who is going to take another big step forward this year....I like him over whoever plays SG for the Kings. David Lee is a proven commodity, and should benefit from having Bogut behind him defensively. Robinson unproven at this point...so for now would go with Lee. Harrison Barnes? All I can say at this point is hopeful.

Otis Byrd III

Scott, to answer your question, if Curry didn't have his ankle issues, I'm not 100% sure I would take him over Cousins. Like Tyreke, Curry who was the runner up to Tyreke in the ROY voting that year, Curry had a great rookie year, and that's been the only year so far in his career, that he's been fully healthy. Curry was great, and at the time, it looked like the Warriors finally had their replacement for Baron at PG, in Curry. With Curry's ankle issues now, who knows if he's in the Warriors long-term plans now. It's kind of sad really, because Curry is such a talent, and he could eventually be an All-Star caliber PG, if healthy. In the NBA, as we've seen, you need a good PG and a good center/PF to build around, in order to be a successful team. It's just, in the NBA now, good bigs are hard to come by, and players like Cousins who were highly touted coming out of college, don't come around everyday. I would probably take Cousins over a healthy Curry. It would be hard for me as a Warrior fan to make that decision, because I like Curry as a player. I have his jersey. In the NBA, you can always get a guard, even though players like Curry when healthy, don't come around everyday either. It's easier to build around a big in the NBA, than you can with a guard or guards. The Warriors tried that with Curry and Monta, and sadly, it didn't work. If the Kings had better players to build around Tyreke and Cousins, they probably would be a contender. But yeah, I would probably still pick Cousins because it's hard to find good bigs in the NBA, and he brings that toughness that you need, to the frontcourt.

Stan

This where Meyers youth and Lacob's inexperience screams out loud...they painted themselves into a corner with "We stand behind our Coach 100%" Lacob might know in business what to do..but in public? he's lost in what the proper protocol is. Hence,standing there like a statue as a chorus of boo's rained down. And now with Mark Jackson he's sort of a proto Penn State president,Lacob isn't taking action,admit it hasn't worked out for Jackson,and fire him. I can only wonder if the drug dealers friends finances aren't mixed in with that church?..

Gooselosgatos

Sac is totally overrated with the exception of Robinson who will be a stud in the league. Tyreke: bigger Monte Ellis who doesn't make players around him bettter and plays lack D. If the Kings loved him so much his named wouldn't have popped up in trade rumors this offseason. Cousins: who in their right mind would sign this kid to a guaranteed contract once his rookie one is up. I guarantee once he gets big money he will turn into a locker room cancer and coach killer who sits on his couch all offseason. Jimmier: actual height measured at six feet at combine who can't make people better around him, plays bad D though he tries and upside isn't there like other players. If you follow the NBA closely, I can't even believe this is a discussion and neither would any scout. Kings have the flashier names and with the exception of Robinson that is what they are - names.

Scott Warfe

Goose, you're pretty spot on in your player analysis. However, I'm not sure one of the worst teams in the league can be considered overrated.

Gooselosgatos

Scott, I guess that's kinda my point. There is no difference between the quality and character of the Kings young players compared to the Warriors. Hence, my surprise there was even a column written comparing the two.

Stan

Any team that has D.Cousins on it's team is never going to go anywhere. He doesn't raise a team,he drags them down. Like Monta, Cousins is missing too much upstairs.

Butcherboy415

I have said it before and will say it again, even as a die hard dubs fan, you have to like the young nucleus in sac town. Yes tyreke has certain position issues and maturing to do, but his potential is high, and he stays healthy.currys ankle just really others me, as even great players who have nagging injuries see their career limited or regressed, like say a Greg Oren. It would be a shame cuz we all agree steph has a unique game and fundamentally solid set of skills. I am weirdly very high on cousins as well, as he has a mean tough edge(needs harnessing) and undeniable post game that is still raw. The kings also have a perfect bench scorer in Thornton who knows his role and can defend a little too, add Isaiah and Robinson, and it is a bright future, but their cap flexibility is what makes them take the small edge in my book. If injuries do not derail them the dubs look solid though in comparison to years past. I am just wearing of the 10m plus invested in Biedrins boget lee as it hampers spending and we know the dubs must overpay to get players, great article scot!

Fitz's Future Unemployment Check

either would be lucky to sniff the 8 seed, so does it really matter?

Scott Warfe

Hahahaha! I'm contactually obligated to say, "Yes."

Otis Byrd III

If this was last year, I would've said the Kings, but with the way both teams look like right now, I might have to say the Warriors. The Warriors have a decent looking roster now with Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Lee, and Bogut in the starting 5, and then a bench unit of Jack, Jenkins, Ezeli, Green, Tyler, Jefferson, possibly Rush and McGuire if they come back, and Biedrins if he doesn't go to jail, I'll take that squad. What might even it out a little is that the Kings have Tyreke Evans and DeMarcus Cousins. Just those two alone could be two young core players that any team could build around, if they were rebuilding. The Kings also have some other nice young core pieces in Isaiah Thomas, Thomas Robinson, Jason Thompson, Jimmer, Marcus Thornton, and I guess Aaron Brooks now since the Kings signed him today. I agree that neither team separates one from the other as far as skill goes, but with the team the Warriors have right now and with the young core players that the Warriors have, the Warriors are better than the Kings, and the Warriors younger core players are slightly better than the Kings younger core players, even though the Kings have Tyreke Evans and DeMarcus Cousins on their roster.

Gooselosgatos

Otis, Would you actually ever entertain the idea of signing Cousins to a long term deal. That guy has the 'once I get my money I'm going to to sit on my couch in the offseason, tell my coach to Fxxxxck Off and do damn well whatever I please' vibe written all over him. Tyreke is totally overated. He's a much bigger Monte Ellis who doesn't make players around him better and plays poor D. If the Kings loved him so much his name wouldn't have been popping up in trade rumors all off-season. Another guy who I'd be afraid to sign to a long term deal. Talent is meaningless unless you actually justify it it with your production.

Otis Byrd III

Ummm, I don't know. I would seriously have to think about it. Yes, Cousins can be a headache, but centers like him aren't available that often. I see what you're saying, but guys eventually mature and learn from their mistakes from when they were younger players. I would probably have a talk with him first, and if he commits to being a team player and not being a problem in the locker room, then I would be on board to sign him to a long-term deal, like a 3 or 4 yr. deal. Maybe not what Hibbert got, but a 3 or 4 yr. deal for sure. I wouldn't give him Biedrins money. You shouldn't sign a center to a 6 yr. deal, unless it's a guy like Shaq in his prime, or even Dwight Howard now. A sure thing. As far as Tyreke goes, I'm not sure if he's overrated, and I'm not sure if he's a bigger Monta. He's a pretty good guard, and he was te ROY a few seasons ago, but as Scott was talking about, Tyreke doesn't have a position. It will be interesting to see if Keith Smart gives him a defined position this year. Yeah, it was kind of telling how the Kings put him in trade rumors this offseason. Do they believe in him? I'm sure they still do, but maybe they were seeing what they could get for him, while his stock is still kind of high. Teams sometimes do this. Even the Warriors thought about/somewhat contemplated trading Curry for Rondo.

Gooselosgatos

Otis, You have more faith in these guys word that I do. They seem to always say all the right things before getting a contract.

Scott Warfe

Nice points, Otis. Last I heard McGuire and Rush were not going to be brought back. In fact, it looks like the Lakers are making a strong push for Rush. I'm not sure what to make of Tyreke, to be honest. He seems to be one of those players without a position. He's great with the ball in his hand, but doesn't have the court vision of a point guard. He's not good off the ball, so he really can't be an effective two or three. His shooting is inconsistent, and he can't guard any position. I'm just not sure what he does. That's all. Anyway, that might have strengthened your point. But if I could chose one player from either team to build a franchise around, I would probably choose Cousins. Also, I thought about including Brooks in the analysis, but he played in China last season. So, I thought it would be unwise.

Otis Byrd III

As far as McGuire goes, it would be great if the Warriors could bring him back. He was key to the Warriors bench defensively this past season. I haven't heard anything as far as what teams that are interested in him goes, but it would be great if the Warriors could bring McGuire back. It would be great if the Warriors could finally have a good and deep bench unit going into next season. As far as Tyreke goes, I agree. It's almost like, he's not a PG, but he's not a forward. He's a "tweener". Tyreke is a great player, but you're right that he has no position right now. I remember he started some games at SF for the Kings this past season, since Isaiah Thomas made a name for himself as their starting PG, and I think Marcus Thorton started some games as their starting SG. Tyreke didn't want to be their starting SF. Tyreke looks awkward playing PG. It's almost like he's too tall to be a PG, but he's too short to be a SF. I agree that he's not good off the ball at SG as well, but Tyreke probably is more of a SG ideally. You look at him and you kind of think, that's a SG. The Kings eventually will probably have to make a decision on what position to play Tyreke. Is he a PG, a SG, or a SF? As far as Aaron Brooks goes, he could be a nice addition to the Kings. Yeah, he played in China last year, but he could probably be a decent backup PG to Isaiah Thomas. The Kings didn't really have backup PG this past season. Isaiah Thomas was that for a while, until he played his way into the starting lineup. I totally agree with you on Cousins. If I could build a franchise around any player from either of these two teams, I would also pick Cousins. Yeah, the guy is an idiot, but when he has his head on straight, he can be that center that you need. Plus, he brings toughness, and you don't really have to worry about him being an injury risk. I think the Celtics were interested in trading for him at the trading deadline this past season, and there's something to be said for that. Plus, centers like Cousins are hard to come by.... Even though the Warriors finally have a center in Bogut, if I had to pick one of the two between him and Cousins, I would pick Cousins.

Otis Byrd III

haha. I'm sorry Scott...I didn't know that you grew up a Kings fan. Hopefully the Warriors and the Kings can eventually have a real rivalry and face each other in the playoffs one of these years. Yeah, Tyreke had a great rookie year, but he has kind of fell off since then. Maybe some it could be coaching. Paul Westphal might not have been the coach for him, just like how he wasn't the coach for Cousins. We'll see how Tyreke does with a full season under Keith Smart. When Keith Smart was here with the Warriors, every player brought in to what he wanted to do. I still miss Keith Smart. It's too bad the Warriors got rid of him, even though I'm still confident that Mark Jackson can help turn the Warriors around, despite the latest news on him. But yeah, maybe some of Tyreke's struggles were coaching, while some could be not having a position as you brought up earlier. We'll see what the Kings plans are for Tyreke, and if his game can improve this year. Yeah, that's true about Cousins. Even though he can be a problem in the locker room, sometimes things involving athletes like him, who've had problems in the past, can be a little overblown by the media. Was it all Cousins' fault that Westphal got fired? You could say yeah, but the Kings weren't winning when he was the head coach, and they weren't really responding to him. The Kings probably did need to go in a different direction, and Keith Smart has proved that he can be a good/decent head coach, despite a losing record as a head coach so far.

Scott Warfe

Flexing that basketball knowledge, Otis. Geez. You put me to shame. I grew up a HUGE Kings fans. I used to dream about attacking Shaq with a folding chair (I watched a lot of WCW and WWF). Tyreke's rookie season was so promising. He flashed Derrick Rose-esque quickness and ability to get to the rim. But his game never matured. It never improved. Just so disappointing. I wonder if part of that is coaching. He hasn't exactly played under great teachers, as far as I can tell. Spot on RE: Cousins. His skill set is, how should I say this, rare. He does seem to be a bit childish at times, but some of that MAY be overblown. The guys at SactownRoyalty.com are actively trying to change the way Cousins is perceived by the media/fans/etc. If Curry didn't have his ankle issues, would you still want Cousins? I feel like Curry has an invaluable skill set as well, but his longterm career is severely handicapped by that ankle.

Otis Byrd III

Thanks Scott!.... As far as Rush goes, yes, he is a restricted free agent. That would be unfair if the Lakers got him though. Yes, he's a player the Lakers could use off the bench, but do we really want to see him hoisting a trophy with the Lakers, and be that key player off the bench ala Odom or other former key Lakers bench players such as Shannon Brown as well, be a key reason they win another championship? I'm not exactly saying that if the Lakers end up signing Rush, that they will win a championship next season, but he would fit nicely on their roster and strengthen their bench. The Lakers would all of a sudden have a good bench if they add Rush, and I heard they have signed or are going to sign Jamison. With all that being said, I heard that the Warriors plan on matching any offer. Even though the Lakers could use Rush, the Warriors need him more than the Lakers do. Even if the Lakers add Rush or not, they will still be a solid team next year, with the way their roster stands right now. Rush was key for the Warriors off the bench this past season, and he continue to help this team moving forward. You would hate to see the Warriors lose yet another quality free agent, especially to the Lakers, in Rush, who was a find for the Warriors when they traded Amundson for him last year.

The most the Lakers can offer is the mini mid-level at just a touch over $3M. I would think the Warrior match that with no hesitation.

Scott Warfe

Good point. I forgot that he was a restricted FA.

Stan

wow-This was brought up last year. And the answer was and still is, the Warriors. On coaches,its now neck and neck....I'm not sure Meyers doesn't just cut his losses with Jackson now and save the season.

Scott Warfe

Release Jackson this season?

Stan

Sure,Marc Jackson has more then violated his contract. Al Davis fired many a coach for less,and never paid them a dime of the reimaning contract. And no court ever forced him. Besides..we see he's not much of a coach.